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The good spruce
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Author:  ggdelazzer [ Thu Dec 15, 2005 11:12 am ]
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It took a while to have some of the pictures at a reasonable dimension (that new camera makes enormous files) but a few ones should show what I mean when I say that trees of the same species may show great differences. My english does not help, hope pictures work better

These are Italian Alpine Red Spruces (Picea Abies, the picture is not perfect but should show enough); they grow anywhere in this area, I shot this picture from my house; notice that they are dark green, full of branches.




In the next picture the trees are similar, just 1000 m higher. The deers you see are payed to stay here and play with the tourists.





This is a picture I took flying a few miles from home.





On the way to Fiemme I took a picture of this one, it looks more yellowish, has poor branches and columnar shape.






Here we are inside the National Park of Paneveggio, the trees are exactly like the ones I have in front of my house but...





look at these ones, they have a different shape and a different colour; they have poor and contourted branches only on the south side of the trunk. Here we are at an aprox 1900 m over the sea level, these are the Fiemme trees, the ones to which I refer while talking about the differences existing among trees of the same species.





here's a closer pic of one of them, this is the real "Fiemme"




This is (hmmm, was... ) my personal supply for this year




A closer shot to show more of the wood colour and grain count, quite nice ah?





And this is the guy you know as Gigi when he does not talk about wood




New grammar and dictionary soon.
Cheers Gg
Author:  Jason [ Thu Dec 15, 2005 11:41 am ]
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Great photos! Looks like you guys do it just about the same there as here
Author:  ggdelazzer [ Thu Dec 15, 2005 11:57 am ]
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Hey, of course we do. We talk and build also

Author:  jfrench [ Thu Dec 15, 2005 12:06 pm ]
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gg - VERY cool photos, very interesting to see.

How much does one pay for a decent log out there? A friend of mine sometimes organizes and excursion to a sawmill in Austria amongst a few makers, and the tops come out (iirc) costing something like $10 each. Been dying to go do that - and I will, as soon as I have a good enough supply to worry about tops that won't need to be touched for 7 to 10 years.

Thanks again for posting these photos.

Oh, and lets see some more pics of your work too!

Best wishes,
Joshuajfrench38701.8385648148
Author:  ggdelazzer [ Thu Dec 15, 2005 12:23 pm ]
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Joshua
the good quality craft wood spruce has an average price of 650 euros per cubic meter, the tone wood spruce may be 5 times; a good guitar top is around 35 euros but the very best Fiemme does not cost less than 50-55 (65 usd).

The spruce I'm using for this soundbox is not such a great top, I liked the tap tone more than its grain count and appearance, don't know exactly where it does come from. I heard somewhere that great luthiers can build awesome guitars even with scrap wood... that's why I do prefer rabbish for my builds
Gg

ggdelazzer38701.8560416667
Author:  Bobc [ Thu Dec 15, 2005 1:20 pm ]
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GG very nice photos and very interesting. I like the looks of that top bracing too. Thanks for posting.
Author:  jfrench [ Thu Dec 15, 2005 1:38 pm ]
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Gg - that is an interesting point. Even Torres used some wood which many would not make a guitar with today, and he is of course totally infallable.


I don't mind a wider grain spacing, a bit of color variation, a stray bearclaw - whatever. These are definitely not things I use to decide how much potential a soundboard has, and sometimes I feel like I am constantly re-educating customers who thing having ultra tight grain is the most important thing.

The soundboard you are using in that guitar has a very beautiful look to it, a gorgeous whiteness with just the right contrast between the early growth and late growth. The spacing wouldn't bother me one bit if its harvested well, dried/seasons, sawn with minimal runout. Especially if the tap tone is favorable.

It reminds me a bit of the soundboard on one of my latest, Italian spruce as well. I only have one left from this supplier, and the stamp on it is faded, and I can't remember quite who it is - but these soundboards have made for very colorful sounding instruments.

Anyone recognize the stamp?


To me, there are subtle but definite differences between the spruce if I have from Italy and the spruce I have from Austria. In sound, appearance and texture. So far I can't say one country of origin is better than the other though.

Your pictures give a nice perspective for someone who is used to looking at the wood and not the tree.

Best wishes,
Joshuajfrench38701.9028703704
Author:  Shane Neifer [ Thu Dec 15, 2005 1:43 pm ]
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Luigi,

Thanks for posting these. Your country looks surprising similiar to parts of our country, especially near the Rocky Mountains.

I think that it is great that we can share our processes with the forum.

Best

Shane
Author:  jfrench [ Thu Dec 15, 2005 1:43 pm ]
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This picture is practically porn to me. I wish Alpine Spruce grew in Texas!
Author:  BruceH [ Thu Dec 15, 2005 2:18 pm ]
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Thanks for the pics, Gg. Very interesting, and nice work on the guitar too.
Author:  Howard Klepper [ Thu Dec 15, 2005 4:14 pm ]
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Good looking wood; interesting tour of your backyard.
Author:  ggdelazzer [ Thu Dec 15, 2005 8:31 pm ]
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Thank you guys.
Hey isn't this a bridge plate reinforcement? Hope the top will still sound...

I'll post pics of the finished bracing tonite.
Thank you again, I'm proud to be part of this great forum

Gg
Author:  ggdelazzer [ Thu Dec 15, 2005 8:51 pm ]
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Hey Bob
choose your one


Author:  Dennis E. [ Thu Dec 15, 2005 11:40 pm ]
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Thanks for the tour!
Author:  Bobc [ Fri Dec 16, 2005 12:59 am ]
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[QUOTE=ggdelazzer] Hey Bob
choose your one
[/QUOTE]
How about one of these
Author:  Brock Poling [ Fri Dec 16, 2005 1:45 am ]
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Yeah, but the shipping on that would be tough...   
Author:  spruce [ Fri Dec 16, 2005 4:14 am ]
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"Here we are at an aprox 1900 m over the sea level, these are the Fiemme
trees, the ones to which I refer while talking about the differences existing
among trees of the same species."

Hi ggdelazzer...

When you say "Fiemme", are you saying that this wood is actually cut in the
Val di Fiemme, or has "Fiemme" become a catch-word for "good spruce"...?

Thanks for the tour...


Author:  Shane Neifer [ Fri Dec 16, 2005 5:13 am ]
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Luigi,

I have a couple of questions out of interest. Are your logs all process on the saw? I just noticed that the logs are slabbed first and that billets all look sawn also. Does anyone there hand split their billets? Here is a picture of some of my hand processed billets from last year. These were processed with hammers, wedges and axes. It gives me a good sense of the grain orientation to address runout when I saw them into tops.



Your guitar work is VERY clean, wonderful work. I notice that your braces are flat sawn (at least that is how it appears), is there a reason why you don't use quartersawn wood for your braces? I saw all of my brace stock on the quarter and am wondering if I should be flat sawing some also?

Thanks Luigi

Shane
Author:  ggdelazzer [ Fri Dec 16, 2005 10:11 am ]
Post subject: 
Spruce
The Fiemme spruce I buy has origin certificates. 5 miles north, south, east or west and the wood can be awesome but cannot be called "Fiemme spruce".

Shane
the trunks yu see are sawn into quarters and left airdrying for one year before further handlings. Then you can spilt or saw as you prefer depending on the pourpose; do not forget that these logs have to be intended mainly for piano soundboards. I have splits also.

As for your second question the answer is yes, flatsawn. The reason is that I do prefer elasticity against stiffness in small bodied guitars. The whole bracing will be very light in this one. More pics as soon as I can.

Ggggdelazzer38702.7643402778
Author:  spruce [ Fri Dec 16, 2005 10:44 am ]
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"the trunks yu see are sawn into quarters and left airdrying for one year
before further handlings."

Why wouldn't you process it immediately to prevent fungusing of the
sapwood and edge-checking?

Do you de-bark the quarters?
Author:  ggdelazzer [ Fri Dec 16, 2005 10:47 pm ]
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spruce
the quarters are usually hand "peeled" just after quartering; the bark helps protecting the trunks while moving them. The picture shows a few quarters just off the saw, you can still see bark dust on the surfaces. The quarters you se will be processed into 1/2" thick boards in 1 year and then rest in my garage for at least one year more, that's why I say that I won't have fiemme available in the next 2 years. It's green.

I avoid absolutely immediate processing, I think slow airdrying is the best way to prevent checks. I do not see moulds or funguses on Ciresa billets nor in mine, do not think that the smaller the billet the lesser the mould. Fungus grow on wet wood, just cut in the right time (usually 2nd genuary half or first february weeks) with the right moon, keep it off rain or wet ground and wait.
The best way to prevent mould is dry kilning the wood that's quite common in piano soundboards but not suitable for stringed intruments tops.

Cheers - Gg ggdelazzer38703.2917592593
Author:  spruce [ Sat Dec 17, 2005 4:59 am ]
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Interesting....

Thanks!
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